Project shutdown : can we help? #147
Labels
No Label
air conditioner
air purifier
air scanner
authentication error
bug
candy
dish washer
documentation
duplicate
enhancement
fridge
good first issue
haier
help wanted
hob
hood
hoover
invalid
microwave
new appliance
oven
pyhOn
question
robot vacuum cleaner
tumble dryer
washer dryer
washing machine
water heater
wine cellar
wontfix
No Milestone
No project
No Assignees
1 Participants
Notifications
Due Date
No due date set.
Dependencies
No dependencies set.
Reference: xiconfjs/hon#147
Loading…
Reference in New Issue
No description provided.
Delete Branch "%!s(<nil>)"
Deleting a branch is permanent. Although the deleted branch may continue to exist for a short time before it actually gets removed, it CANNOT be undone in most cases. Continue?
Hi!
I'm thinking that we can help the the project to survive and help us to maintain the integration with home assistant alive.
We are a lot of users, and we can massively write to Haier Europe.
The project damage Haier? It's a little hilarious.. Anyway..
What do you think about a creation of petition or a common email to Haier?
I'll be complaining for sure. I can also setup private hosting of the repo if that helps (or you could use bit bucket etc that have a free but private option)
Can't believe they want this shutdown what backward thinking. Little annoyed literally just bought an appliance after checking if there was a home assistant plugin for it this weekend and now its been shutdown.
These companies need to re-think their strategy. What is the difference if you are accessing it from you phone or another device, just doesn't make sense.
Just point us where to fill a little complain. What the hell is "causing significant economic harm" ? Phone app is hilarious, almost anytime i use it it ask for credentials again and again ... This better be joke ;)
Contact form here though not for complaints
https://www.hoover-home.com/en_GB/contact-form/
I also bought two Haier appliances because of their ability to connect to home assistant. I was looking at their dishwashers to add a third and even recommend them to friends. They are shooting themselves in the foot massively - the DIY smart home market is huge.
I saw that the project is to be shut down, is that purely on the basis of Haier's message or has Home Assistant / Github insisted on it? Talk of "attorneys / legal action" will only work if you are in the same jurisdiction, it seems like a scare tactic and I agree with OP - as Haier customers we should make some noise and share the responsibility for the integration however we can to keep it going.
imagine if the repository was archived and as a user base, we were to all fork the project individually in order to continue using it, there'd be multiple copies of the code, managed by users all over the world all connecting into Haier's systems. Haier aren't going to take every one of us to court, irrespective of the legal arguments, taking your loyal customers to court is not a good look for any company and a sure fire way to lose them. If the issue is they have any technical concerns about the integration they could raise them and they can be fixed. Just shows they don't understand the potential of the DIY smart home market.
Happy to help share the burden however would help.
Guess you can also send email complaints here. This is specific to the app team I think:
support.hon@haier-europe.com
if I dont update will the addon still continue to work ?
you can update, addon still working. the author must remove the code from the Internet.
Just one thing there, while Haier should if anything be offering to purchase the addon (concept or code) and not forcing it to go offline it is possible that the addon does incur economic damage to Haier, it depends on how it works, but I think the most likely 'reason' they can give for this is the addon triggering a constant stream of api calls throughout the day whereas you would only otherwise use their shitty app for a very short period, so in theory they can probably claim correctly that the addon costs them financially (I would however think a great deal given it is only HA users). While the addon will keep working when taken down, it would then probably be a simple matter to either stop it working by changing the api or it's authentication but it will take them a while to do that I hope since they would need to push out mobile app changes first.
I would add that for the HA integration is a must, no more Haier devices for me given this.
We need to investigate further how to control Haier devices locally.
I am also looking for such a possibility.
I found the project https://community.home-assistant.io/t/esp-haier-haier-air-conditioner-esp-home-wemos-d1-mini/127880 although, I have the impression that there are two versions, Haier and Haier Europe which is why, among other things, my air conditioning does not work.
Many thanks for all the support. We have put a lot of work into this integration and I am very disappointed in Haier. This integration brings Haier added value free of charge and I find it appalling how it is being handled.
I will not take the project down immediately and simply let Haier win. Using the api should not be illegal. If the significant economic damage is caused by us making too many requests with the integration, we can talk about it and slow it down.
Luckily I'm insured. I've contacted my legal expenses insurance and they're covering a lawyer for the case. I will seek advice and see how an expert assesses the situation and then proceed.
Definitely.
Perhaps by redirecting the cloud server dns on our home networks and then run a local server to Imitate the cloud.
I have a feeling my washer and dryer are esp32 based. Despite their size they may have the brains of a lightbulb! I will do some digging. If they are esp32 based we may not need to reinvent the wheel for custom firmware as many will have gone that way before us
I have sent a complaint to Haier customer support via email and the app tonight. Will try twitter next. And then I have some 1* amszon/trustpilot/etc reviews to write, but will see if they respond first.
I have wrote.
We all need to wrote, and say that What they need to do is provide an official integration with Home Assistant yourselves and not wait for third parties to develop them
I think they have written to scare, they are probably trying to monopolize the market. Just like they forced Apple to use USB-C to allow compatibility, this is something similar. They cannot prohibit something that is yours from communicating with your home automation, but they are using fear tactics
This makes no sense, i will not buy any more haier products, what's the point of getting an IoT thing if i can't integrate it into home assistant then?
Not sure how a violation of terms of service is relevant to you, the plugin author, unless you're violating those terms yourself or proxying requests for others. Glad to hear you have insurance.
But they can demand that an unofficial app/script doesn't access their api.
I don't agree with what they are doing but they are perfectly within their rights to send a c&d.
retweet and telle everybody you know to retweet
https://twitter.com/hectormjuste/status/1747183924722253955
I'm not totally agree with that.
We are accessing the API with our users and passwords to our data about our appliances.
APIs are used without any type of brute force.
We are simply using what they publicy left available.
Don't want people use API? Lock it.
You want a restricted usage? Make it available through a more clear API access with an api key, with limits to avoid servers overload.. And make all happy.
Probably is not clear to Haier how much this integration helped to sell appliances..
Haier don't have a legal leg to stand on in Europe (Article 6 of the EU software directive applies) or the DMCA (Interoperability work is protected)
APIs are not private and Haier are attempting a "prior restraint on trade" (words which will make most regulators prick up their ears and take interest) by way of enforcing vendor lockin
I have flagged this to some tech journalists and suggested they get comment from regulators/EFF
Someone needs to flag this to German regulators - they take this kind of behaviour extremely seriously and will quite happily drag Haier over the coals (I'm outside the EU thanks to Brexit, so can't do it)
Haier have probably just kicked a hornets' nest and are about to reap the consequences
Just sent this to support.hon@haier-europe.com
Dear Haier-Team,
I have seen your Haier Europe Security and Governance Department have threaten open source developer Andre0512 to shut down two github projects with legal actions.
They stated Haier is suffering significant economic harm form providing integration of Haier products to home-assistant.
I don´t see where economic harm could occur from providing good integrations in widely used home automation software.
Having good integration in home-assistant is a competitive advantage nowadays. So Haier has a economic advantage from these projects.
I personally, and I think any other home-assistant user, chose the manufacturer with the possibility of integration into their home automation.
Please reconsider your actions against open source developers.
Manufacturers prohibiting open source integration will definitely land on my "no buy" list.
Also sent an email based of @subw0ofer
Dear Haier-Team,
I have seen your Haier Europe Security and Governance Department have threaten open source developer Andre0512 to shut down two github projects with legal actions.
They stated Haier is suffering significant economic harm form providing integration of Haier products to home-assistant.
I don't see where economic harm could occur from providing good integrations in widely used home automation software.
Having a good integration with home-assistant is a competitive advantage. So Haier has a economic advantage from these projects.
I for once wouldn't buy Haier if not for an existing API integration with my existing home automation solution. And no, hOn is not an option.
If not for this integration I would have bought Samsung, LG or Mitsubishi.
Personally, and I think any other home-assistant users, chose the manufacturer with the possibility of integration into their home automation.
Please reconsider your actions against open source developers.
Manufacturers prohibiting open source integration will definitely land on my "no buy" list.
Manufacturers without these integrations will land on my "not recommended" list for any contacts I have.
Best regards
I've send this mail to Hayer.
Dear Haier Europe Security and Governance Department,
I am writing to express my disappointment and concern regarding the recent communication I read on Github, stating that Haier Europe wishes to have the GitHub project developed by the open-source developer Andre0512 closed.
Firstly, I want to emphasize that I consciously chose Haier as my preferred air conditioning brand because of its compatibility with the open-source project created by Andre0512. The integration with Home Assistant, facilitated by Andre0512's work (https://github.com/Andre0512/hon and https://github.com/Andre0512/pyhOn), played a pivotal role in my decision to opt for Haier products.
Understanding that Haier prioritizes the protection of its intellectual property, I would like to express my sincere regret if the company perceives the mentioned integration as a violation of terms of service. However, it is important to note that the project in question has significantly contributed to enhancing the user experience and functionality of Haier products within the context of home automation.
It is with great disappointment that I learned about Haier's request to close down this open-source project. As a loyal customer who was planning to purchase two additional Haier air conditioners, I am now reconsidering my decision due to the potential discontinuation of support for the Home Assistant integration.
I understand the importance of protecting intellectual property, but I believe there might be alternative solutions or compromises that can be explored. I kindly urge Haier to reconsider the decision to close down the project and to explore an amicable resolution that would not only protect the company's interests but also preserve the positive experiences of customers like myself who appreciate the added value provided by the open-source community.
If Haier decides to proceed with the closure of the project, it is with regret that I may need to explore other air conditioning brands that offer compatibility with my home automation system. This decision would not be taken lightly, as I have been satisfied with Haier's products and services.
I sincerely hope that Haier Europe will consider the impact on loyal customers like myself and explore alternatives that can maintain a positive relationship between the company and the open-source community.
Thank you for your understanding, and I look forward to hearing from you soon.
Best regards,
That sounds like another good option! Do you know who i can contact in Germany?
Thank you for all your support! Btw, this was the e-mail address that contacted me: cybergovernance@haier-europe.com
Thanks, forwarded the mail to that adress.
I suggest to lets wait if this does somtehing.
If they decide to continue this I suggest next step is contacting CEO's and mangers of Haier on Linkedin.
I hope we don't have to take it that route.
I contacted the Polish media and will try to find out whether the Office of Competition and Consumer Protection is able to do something.
Let's hope that Haier will not succeed in this blockade.
This is what I said, it is not legal, but they try to send a message to the developer to try he being in panic
Companies do not like it when people speak ill of them on social media. You should tweet and retweet as much as possible, and retweet all responses while always referring to @HaierAppliances. You can also try Instagram.
Maybe my tweet is not the best one, but any proposal is welcome
best solution for this is to provide a well designed and documented API. Even better, a local API; with a local API no load in their servers is generated.
I bought a Haier tumble dryer on December. The home assistant integration was the decision maker point. Without the integration the wifi connection is totally useless.
I have also sent an email to both of the addresses listed above. This integration has been genuinely fantastic and one of the best things about my extensive Home Assistant setup. It will be a damn shame if it gets shut down....
Speaking of which, @Andre0512 - can I buy you a coffee?
Coffee bought! Best 5 euros I've spent in ages - I encourage all to do the same.
I also bought coffee, it's really worth it :)
https://github.com/Andre0512/hon#support
my email
It is with regret and some measure of disgust that I saw your attempts to interrupt an open source application that integrates your devices with Home Assistant (something you don’t do) and makes up for the deficiencies in your mobile app not to mention removing the irritations it constantly causes by it’s poor design and interface.
Your email is seems was
{the email from them here}
As well as the extremely poor attitude to customers who to be frank only bought your products over a rivals due to the HA integration, which again I repeat you do not provide at all, you appear to be making some claims that I doubt you can substantiate with any degree of certainty.
I would strongly encourage you to reach out to this and any other similar integration to works cooperatively with the authors, or purchase and maintain the integration yourself rather then dig yourself into a locked down system where you will reduce any future white good sales.
Regards
Raymond Stone
best if you know how to develop it, it is not so easy
Glad to hear you're going to see how this shakes out rather than folding.
I also received an email from a manufacturer insisting I remove GitHub content which broke their T&C's. I think this is a standard tactic.
Although tempted to just ignore them, I replied back explaining how the code in question was created without agreeing to their T&C's (their APIs are discoverable from public webpages) and offered to remove/rework any content which they could demonstrate was illegal. Their subsequent responses dropped any T&C claims and concentrated on regulatory requirements.
I think the EU regulation mentioned above is likely part of the retained regulations post Brexit in the UK https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/intellectual-property-and-retained-european-union-law-the-facts/retained-eu-law-for-intellectual-property
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/eudr/2009/24/article/6
There's been a decent flurry of discontent aimed st Haier from the Home Assistant community on Twirter. Hopefully it will igrow. I tagged a load of Haier,Hoover and Candy accounts, a few youtubers and the official homeassistant accounts.
Next step is to figure out their org structure and start indivual senior managers.
And finally if the automation does atop working and my laundry piles up, I'm sure I can automate rhe proess of randomly choosing a different Haier office each day and sending them a specially selected, extra mature, pair of dirty undies to show My appreciation hehe
I suggest to give 1-star rating to their official apps at Google Play / AppStore mentioning this case.
Maybe LTT can talk about it on WAN show
I have sent Haier an email on both adresses and I sent an email to the Free Software Foundation Europe to make them aware of this issue (fsfe.org). Hopefully Haier will see the error in it's ways soon...
Also sent an email to Dutch tech website Tweakers.net to make them aware of this.
For me, this plugin was an important reason to buy a Haier washing machine and dryer last autumn.
No need to be THAT petty 🙃
Let's hope this gets resolved.
Not sure it's their can of worms but sure.
Short e-mail:
Due to the information regarding the closure of the HON integration project with Home Assistant, I urge Haier to withdraw from the steps taken.
The main factor influencing my purchase of your air conditioners was the possibility of control via HA.
If integration is impossible in the future, I will be forced to look for other solutions.
Best regards and please consider positively the request of Home Assistant users.
Just send an email as well, there was only one reason why I chose for my current dryer 3 months ago.
Support through a plugin for HomeAssistant so now this would become totally useless and I payed to much for the device.
Of course no legal reason, but they should look at other companies that support developers in their plugins through their api's.
Good idea about youtubers, I am not really a youtuber but I just uploaded this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2rEVW0grsk
Is is in spanish, baybe someone could do one in englush, spanish and english covers a high percentage of users in the world
hOn app = free
hOn service = free
hOn cloud = free
Home Assistant = free
Home Assistant hOn integration = free
WHERE IS THE ECONOMIC DAMAGE?
I've emailed too. Hope you can fight them on this.
Emailed too to both emails on this thread
I guess it is API costs related.
Way too logical!
App = Slow-mo
Support for Home Assistant = too much Hassle
App should rebrand
Hon = Hoff
I sense a sponsorship deal or meme or bankruptcy or all 3
In other news I noticed that Reddit has also taken up the gauntlet - Haier trending on the home assistant subreddit which is great.
I contacted a load more Youtubers I follow to spread the word,.
I wonder if any of the tech news/blogs or might be interested in picking up the story. I'm sure a site like TheRegister would enjoy writing up a suitably sarcastic story ridiculing Haier's ineptitude.
Also, Companies like Haier/Hoover/Candy should be published on a Wall of Shame so they can be avoided at all costs.
They aren't taking into account the additional sales that a Home Assistant integration generates for the company either.
Not only that but if a customers uses Home assistant then they aren't using the app - same service underneath.
I am wondering if they're after some "free marketing". All those tweets, videos on youtube, etc. talking about them...
Anyway, retweeted in case that helps.
TheRegister has been aware of it for a few days. I believe that they're working on something, but more people flagging it to news@theregister.com wouldn't hurt
Haier has very few TheRegister stories but what's of interest is this one as it's relevant to what's happening now: https://www.theregister.com/2020/06/13/ge_refrigerator_drm_keeps_turning/
i am not involved with the project and don't own a haier product but i have an interest in these kinds of shakedowns.
my 2 cents.
the community must demand the following things from haier before going any further because it would only cause misunderstanding on both sides.
haier needs to provide details of WHICH clauses of terms of service does this project violate if at all they are accepted in the first place. If they are not accepted in the first place, how would we be in violation?
what is unauthorized manner? , has haier explained authorized/unauthorized manner anywhere in their public documentation ? and also, what significant economic harm is being faced by the company? in terms of dollar figures
in 1 and 2 they say unauthorized use but in 3 they are saying intellectual property protection? when did these projects violate their intellectual property? They need to specifically mention the same before anything else also.
Louis Rossmann made a video: https://youtu.be/RcSnd3cyti0
German here, Not sure where i could do that but would Gladly give it a try
I can't believe it 😳
Louis brought me here. No owner of Haier products, and for sure never will be one. But I'm a huge fan of free and fair open source, so this behavior pisses me off.
Preparing some mails to be sent to Haier...
You've got that!
contact louis rossman, he said that you are taking it down, he didnt see this thread or your response
Funnily enough, I was just about to buy their split system AC in hope that I could use HA integration.
Tomorrow my money goes to Toshiba instead, and a part of it to Andre's coffe.
How can we make sure Linus (probably on WAN show?) also spreads this? These companies will never stop doing these kinds of things until we (via the media unfortunatelly) bring it to notice how wrong that is!
I've spoken to a lawyer and will probably take it down because I'm still taking a high risk despite having insurance, but I haven't made a final decision yet...
@Andre0512 You should see if the Electronic Frontier Foundation can help with legal defense.
yeah lmao that's where i came from. signed up specifically for this and nothing else. good luck man, hopefully you won't have to take it down and they'll like rescind or something. sure would be a shame if thousands of people forked the project though... 🤔
@Andre0512 I've just noticed you're in germany. Please get in contact with the CCC before taking anything down.
They can't do shit as long as it's only a mail.
Starting to get picked up by smaller news agencies: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/news/security/haier-hits-home-assistant-plugin-dev-with-takedown-notice/
Wow this sucks.
I don't own any product by Haier and after reading through the comments here, I'll make sure it stays that way.
@Andre0512 being based in Germany, maybe you want to get in touch with someone at Heise, this sounds like just the kind of story they might be interested in.
I suspect they're going to backpedal hard after this negative publicity, in any case I'll be putting it back up the moment it goes down, these scum do not intimidate me.
Heise.de has just been informed. Very good tip!
Don't take it down. Your project is not illegal.
Got here from Louis Rossmann YT video ... I see that people are forking this repo like there is no tomorrow ...
Well ... when in Rome ...
... says this random dude on the internet. Your claim that the project is not illegal is unsubstantiated without knowledge of local laws and project specifics. It's important to verify the legality in the relevant jurisdiction.
Last time I checked only courts and judges can say what is illegal or not, the burthen of proof is with heier. Their stupid T&C are not above any law in any country, so the only thing the are left with is this scaremongaring tactic. Anyway, I dont't have any of their products and after this I'll make sure it stays this way for me and anyone I know.
I wonder if forking (on GitHub) is enough. If the main project is taken offline due to legal actions, I bet GitHub will take down the forks as well. You can, of course, clone the project and even better host it on another platform.
At least they will have to take it up with GitHub and not a single user ... might be more difficult ... maybe ...
I forked it with added nice message "Fuck Haier, may their financial bankruptcy match their moral one"
They can complain and send threats all they want, i don't care.
If Haier had a legitimate claim of the content within this repo violating their IP, or that the software in this repo allowed users of that software to violate their IP, then they would've been best served filing a takedown request with GitHub directly which would also take down all forks.
They've not done this, which suggests there is likely no legal infringement. This repo contains none of Haier's own code, It contains no proprietary technology or algorithms. It contains no trade secrets.
If using this software violates their terms of service, that's not the responsibility of the software author, it's the user of that software.
I do not know what they told you but without citing what you did wrong and against what paragraph you really violated you are not in trouble.
They simply want you to intimidate you.
If they still sue you you can sue them back for the time you lost, the effort to going to court and the anger and nerves they caused you.
Secondly they can all accomplish what they want to do via github. If there is a REAL legal issue github will take your repo down.
Agreed, it's just baseless bullying and github management have a history of standing up against bullies and restoring projects even after actual legal actions.
Dutch technology news site tweakers.net has also been informed by multiple readers (I submitted 2 URLS to their system and both were already present in that system) and I expect them to pick up the story as soon as they have time.
Here's hoping Haier gets made an example of.
Just host it on a self-hosted gitlab instance, go anonymous, and tell haier to gfy
No need to do change hostin yet IMO. Github won't shut such project down just because someone sent stupid angry letter.
Someone needs to fork it anonymously then.
Hundreds did. Once original repo is down, one of the forks will become new root.
I hope someone will crack actual firmwares so people can do truly independent setup.
You guys and also can also mirror it on gitlab (and make it private as well) just so we can make as much copies of this repo as possible - on gitlab it's fairly easy to do...
Please wait until you have another mail / letter from haier. I think they are not going to send you anymore letters or mails.
If they continue this and you don't feel comfortable to continue this project I think everyone understands that you take it down but I hope you just wait a bit to see what happens.
I am hoping the same. The haier washing machine I bought recently, connects to wifi and presents an expressif MAC address, so I guess they use a ESP daughter board inside that in turns communicates with the washing machine main board. You have to explicitly turn on hon and then set the washing program in the app. If you try to use the dials, it will turn off the hon connection. Also, it connects to AWS IOT MQTT. Maybe we can replace the firmware on ESP board with ESPHome or something similar that would grant us full local access.
If it is a separate board, maybe we can replace with our own and then put the original one back should, you need to call Haier for warranty claims.
https://www.haier.com/global/about-haier/ceo/
This is the guy in charge.
Maybe some of you know a way to get to the air conditioner boards?
I found https://community.home-assistant.io/t/esp-haier-haier-air-conditioner-esp-home-wemos-d1-mini/127880 however, I see that this Haier is different than ours in Europe.
I really support Andre's project, but if there is a local connection option, it's always better than Haier's cloud.